Every time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome ser...read moreEvery time I need support for my scanner, the Cad-Ray team is there to help. I recently had a question on how to manipulate a scan and export it back to Medit Scan. Damien logged in and helped me out. Problem solved in under five minutes. Awesome service. Thanks Cad-Ray support team!read less - 3/04/2022
Shant Aharonian
Cad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why:
1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer cust...read moreCad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why:
1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer customers first hand experience.
2. Honesty. Based on their experience they share all the good/bad of different systems. They work with you to find a solution that works best for you. Not sell you the piece of the equipment that gives them the biggest commission.
3. Support. Cad-ray offers the missing piece of the dentist/digital manufacturer puzzle. Many other distributors sell you a piece of equipment but don’t have true day-to-day experience with that equipment. Cad-ray’s team openly share their expertise to help customers optimize their workflows with great technology.
4. Passion. The Cad-ray team is extremely passionate about their craft. They truly believe in what they have to offer.
I took Armen Mirzayan’s course on intraoral scanning and it was truly mind blowing. Armen’s insights will help any dentist optimize their craft. I purchased the full sprintray 3d printing ecosystem the help of Frank. I plan to purchase more equipment from cad-ray.
Also, Jesse is a genius in regards to all aspect of digital workflows. I’m truly grateful for this company and everyone who I’ve worked with so far.read less - 10/07/2022
Gabriel Joel
Medit i500 is an incredible scanner. I have experience with other types of scanners including IO and Desktop but this one is really impressive. It is blazing fast and takes beautiful scans. But more importantly is the company itself. Medit is an amaz...read moreMedit i500 is an incredible scanner. I have experience with other types of scanners including IO and Desktop but this one is really impressive. It is blazing fast and takes beautiful scans. But more importantly is the company itself. Medit is an amazing company and is constantly trying to improve. They are always on the cutting edge and releasing new improvements all the time. They are always LISTENING to the customers on how to improve the scanning experience and change accordingly. The customer service is second to none. I highly recommend this scanner but even more highly recommend considering buying the scanner as a result of the great company and PEOPLE that stand behind it.read less - 10/09/2019
Matt Newman was excellent solving a cable problem.! Quick response and good follow up! - 9/18/2024
Michael Martinsen
Honestly the best service that I've received in dental tech support. I had originally purchased a scanner with another supplier and was underwhelmed with the support I received. I switched over to CAD-Ray for my second scanner and have never been let...read moreHonestly the best service that I've received in dental tech support. I had originally purchased a scanner with another supplier and was underwhelmed with the support I received. I switched over to CAD-Ray for my second scanner and have never been let down. They are prompt and exceptionally knowledgeable about the products they support. Thank you CAD-Ray for keeping my practice moving smoothly!read less - 8/27/2021
Shawn Van de Vyver
Most amazing customer service I've experienced with any dental office related company. It reminds me of the legend about the lady returning car tires to Nordstrom and getting a full refund, but with intraoral scanners. I've moved all my related purch...read moreMost amazing customer service I've experienced with any dental office related company. It reminds me of the legend about the lady returning car tires to Nordstrom and getting a full refund, but with intraoral scanners. I've moved all my related purchases (and all future equipment purchases) over to CAD-Ray. I couldn't ask for anything more.What else is there to say?read less - 6/02/2022
Scott Chong
The i500 has been a game-changer for our orthodontic practice. Patients love not having to do alginate impressions. Records appointments and debands take much less time plus there's significantly less clean-up. And it's fast/easy enough to use tha...read moreThe i500 has been a game-changer for our orthodontic practice. Patients love not having to do alginate impressions. Records appointments and debands take much less time plus there's significantly less clean-up. And it's fast/easy enough to use that we've even been able to train summer interns to scans with zero prior dental experience. Our retainers, nightguards, and sleep apnea appliances all showed improved fit with less chair-side delivery time due to accuracy of the scans. Customer support is top-notch. Whenever we've had issues, we get someone immediately and they either talk us through a fix or login via screenshare to help us directly. They have a great loyalty program which gives significant discounts to upgrade to newer units. We recently took advantage and are excited to try out the new i700, especially since they're now Mac-compatible. Simple version: Great intra-oral scanner, easy to use/operate, intuitive software interface, fantastic support.read less - 8/16/2023
Steven Cisternas
The future of digital dentistry is here now. Cad-ray provides all the tools needed to make it possible for us to provide digital care to our patients. Thanks Damien and Armen for a great course. - 8/07/2021
Shant Aharonian
Cad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why: 1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer custo...read moreCad-ray has to be the best company to work with when it comes to digital dentistry solutions. Here are the reasons why: 1. Experience. Everyone in the company has extensive experience in dentistry. They have used all digital platforms and offer customers first hand experience. 2. Honesty. Based on their experience they share all the good/bad of different systems. They work with you to find a solution that works best for you. Not sell you the piece of the equipment that gives them the biggest commission. 3. Support. Cad-ray offers the missing piece of the dentist/digital manufacturer puzzle. Many other distributors sell you a piece of equipment but don’t have true day-to-day experience with that equipment. Cad-ray’s team openly share their expertise to help customers optimize their workflows with great technology. 4. Passionate. The Cad-ray team is extremely passionate about their craft. They truly believe in what they have to offer. I took Armen Mirzayan’s course on intraoral scanning and it was truly mind blowing. Armen’s insights will help any dentist optimize their craft. I purchased the full sprintray 3d printing ecosystem the help of Frank. I plan to purchase more equipment from cad-ray. Also, Jesse is a genius in regards to all aspect of digital workflows. I’m truly grateful for this company and everyone who I’ve worked with so far.read less - 10/07/2022
Suzanne Stock
Excellent experience, customer service has been stupendous! - 11/20/2023
Mary Oliverie
Last year when I started looking into the Medit i500 I had my front desk call 3 sellers to get preliminary information. She told me hands down call CAD-RAY and don’t bother with the others. Boy was she right! Frank got us going with all our hardware ...read moreLast year when I started looking into the Medit i500 I had my front desk call 3 sellers to get preliminary information. She told me hands down call CAD-RAY and don’t bother with the others. Boy was she right! Frank got us going with all our hardware needs and trained us until all our questions were answered. Then Jonathon and Armen jumped in at our 2 day live training in Baltimore. I still review my notes to implement all the great ideas. When I get myself in a jam time to time CAD-RAY responds immediately and fixes my problem. Best decision I have made in the practice in a long time - Thank you everyone at CAD-RAY!read less - 10/09/2019
Great support services and training from Cad-Ray, they are always very helpful and responsive. I have been using the I500 in my offices for the last two years and loving it. - 11/01/2021
Great scanner (medit i500) and mill (coritec one). They were great for an open system that allows me to do just about anything. - 6/16/2020
Christopher Godla
I have had my Medit i700 scanner for about 2 months now and have completed 67 restorative cases with it. Scans have generally been pretty quick, and the accuracy seems to be superior to the iTero I used. My first scanner ended up dying after a few ...read moreI have had my Medit i700 scanner for about 2 months now and have completed 67 restorative cases with it. Scans have generally been pretty quick, and the accuracy seems to be superior to the iTero I used. My first scanner ended up dying after a few weeks. Medit and cad-ray were great- they sent a new scanner within the week and haven't had any problems since. Customer service has been spot on. Overall I have been very satisfied.read less - 6/30/2021
I have been suing the Medit i500 scanner for a little over 2 months now and I have had great success. I have used it for implant cases, immediate dentures and single unit crowns.
What I like the most is that the software is continuously improving ...read moreI have been suing the Medit i500 scanner for a little over 2 months now and I have had great success. I have used it for implant cases, immediate dentures and single unit crowns.
What I like the most is that the software is continuously improving and adding new features.
You really can not ask for more than that! Great product, excellent support and a software development team that listens to their customers feedback!
Very happy with my purchase!!!read less - 2/26/2020
Purchasing my medit i700 from Cad-Ray was a great decision. I did my first training with Kaila and she was fantastic! Super knowledgeable, patient and truly helpful in making sure I was ready to hit the ground running with patient care. I put a call ...read morePurchasing my medit i700 from Cad-Ray was a great decision. I did my first training with Kaila and she was fantastic! Super knowledgeable, patient and truly helpful in making sure I was ready to hit the ground running with patient care. I put a call into cad-ray support in the middle of a case and sure enough Kaila was also the one to answer and handle the situation. She jumped right on my computer and had things fixed in a matter of a few minutes. Awesome support, great staff and overall super positive experience with Cad-ray thus far!read less - 5/06/2022
Asi Cohen
Armen Mirzayan's knowledge base sets CAD-RAY.COM apart from all other digital dental-equipment dealers. Not content with linking manufacturer support content, Armen's team provide instant feedback to any equipment queries, in-depth video tutorials, a...read moreArmen Mirzayan's knowledge base sets CAD-RAY.COM apart from all other digital dental-equipment dealers. Not content with linking manufacturer support content, Armen's team provide instant feedback to any equipment queries, in-depth video tutorials, and regular product testing, streamlining, and pushing the boundaries of their products - be it software, hardware, or connectivity between various brands. I highly recommend this team if you want to fully utilise your equipment and have the backup needed going forward!read less - 11/05/2019
I have had the wonderful experience of working with Ryan at Cad-Ray for the last several weeks and he has been very professional and informative on how to properly use the Medit I700 scanner with regard to the software. I would highly recommend using...read moreI have had the wonderful experience of working with Ryan at Cad-Ray for the last several weeks and he has been very professional and informative on how to properly use the Medit I700 scanner with regard to the software. I would highly recommend using Cad-Ray and contacting Ryan for any of your Medit needs.read less - 1/27/2023
dr sheth
It was very powerful and enlightening experience today to do 2 day sessions with Dr. Armen and Damien. I learned a lot, quite amazed by how much we can do with knowledge and Medit scanner. As usual great support by CAD-RAY always. I absolutely love M...read moreIt was very powerful and enlightening experience today to do 2 day sessions with Dr. Armen and Damien. I learned a lot, quite amazed by how much we can do with knowledge and Medit scanner. As usual great support by CAD-RAY always. I absolutely love Medit scanner.read less - 8/08/2021
Harrison MacKenzie
Purchased Medit i700 from Frank/CAD-Ray and everything has been absolutely top-notch! Great service, quick responses, great training. Very happy with CAD-Ray and our i700! - 10/20/2022
Dixie Jernigan
The customer service we have received while working with Frank DeLuca is second to none! He is incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic, as well as always available to help with any issues. We are very pleased with CAD-RAY and relationship that they...read moreThe customer service we have received while working with Frank DeLuca is second to none! He is incredibly knowledgeable and enthusiastic, as well as always available to help with any issues. We are very pleased with CAD-RAY and relationship that they have with their clients.read less - 1/25/2023
Mark Sperling
Got a great deal in the medit i700 and the training was top notch. I had about 3 one hour sessions with Ryan at cadray and he was clear, concise and knowledgeable in both the software and hardware components of the computer/scanner and the detailed a...read moreGot a great deal in the medit i700 and the training was top notch. I had about 3 one hour sessions with Ryan at cadray and he was clear, concise and knowledgeable in both the software and hardware components of the computer/scanner and the detailed aspects of the dentistry itself. Got a direct line going forward and would recommend cad ray to anyoneread less - 8/17/2022
Ernesto Carmona
When I decided to purchase a digital scanner I decided on user experience. They have provided the best experience I could have asked for, from online support, Facebook support, and in person courses. There is no better team to buy Medit from period...read moreWhen I decided to purchase a digital scanner I decided on user experience. They have provided the best experience I could have asked for, from online support, Facebook support, and in person courses. There is no better team to buy Medit from period. Do yourself a favor and buy from them if you are in the market for an intraoral scanner.read less - 6/16/2020
Kallen Wheeler
I always have enjoyed working with Cad-ray. Customer service is always on-point! - 5/25/2022
Reid Stone
I cannot say enough good things about Cad-Ray and the people involved with this organization. I have purchased equipment over the past few years from them and always been amazed at the non-pushy before the sale help and the after the sale support. ...read moreI cannot say enough good things about Cad-Ray and the people involved with this organization. I have purchased equipment over the past few years from them and always been amazed at the non-pushy before the sale help and the after the sale support. I have been deciding for the last 2 years to make a big purchase of a mill and sintering furnace and Jon has never made me feel like I was bothering him and never pushed me just to try to get a sale. It really is different from other sales experiences I've had with other companies/sales people.Jesse came out and installed and provided training for our new mill and sintering furnace. He went above and beyond what I was expecting to make sure myself and my team knew how everything works during the training. He has also been great with questions we have had since the installation. I just cannot say enough good things about my experience all around and will definitely be a Cad-Ray customer for many years to come. Thank you Cad-Ray!read less - 6/15/2022
Roger Wilson
CAD-Ray provides the best support around. I started scanning with Medit i500 in 2018 and my dental practice immediately changed for the better.As a rookie, I had a lot of questions and I calledCAD-Ray a lot in the beginning. They were great!Jonathan...read moreCAD-Ray provides the best support around. I started scanning with Medit i500 in 2018 and my dental practice immediately changed for the better.As a rookie, I had a lot of questions and I calledCAD-Ray a lot in the beginning. They were great!Jonathan Acker helped me get set up. Frank Weinstein answered tons of questions. Laura Geney became an important source of information as I moved into scan bodies, AI library, and had hardware questions. I’ve attended classes in Dallas featuring Armen Mirzayan who is incredibly knowledgeable and will tell you the good, bad, and the ugly about digital workflow. The possibilities are endless with scanning technology. I also want to mention Nick Statly who has visited my Dallas office and is a wealth of information. I have to admit that I frequently view the CAD-Ray User Group Face Book page just to pick up a few pearls here and there.I highly recommend CAD-Ray because their support is by far the best in the IOS industry and because their people honestly care about the customer and are truly committed to your success.read less - 12/23/2021
Brandon Jones
Cad-Ray customer service is great! Super responsive and efficient. - 3/26/2024
Franco Picofazzi
Great product at an affordable price, not to mention Andy's help at customer service. Highly recommended. - 6/23/2022
Great scanner at a good price...Excellent customer service . I never want to take a conventional impression again! Best upgrade to my office in years. - 11/16/2021
Delicate Dentistry
Cad-Ray's support is truly exceptional. While the equipment represents a significant investment, the peace of mind that comes from knowing they stand firmly behind their products is invaluable. Their support team is efficient, professional, and remar...read moreCad-Ray's support is truly exceptional. While the equipment represents a significant investment, the peace of mind that comes from knowing they stand firmly behind their products is invaluable. Their support team is efficient, professional, and remarkably persistent in ensuring everything runs smoothly. I'm especially grateful to Destaney and Laura for their ongoing assistance- their dedication and expertise have made a world of a difference!read less - 5/15/2025
Jeff Keh
I love my medit i-500. Cad-Ray has wonderful customer support, I can not imagine getting a scanner from anyone else. Armen and Frank are great! Thanks again. Will recommend cad-ray to all my friends. - 6/16/2020
Maggie Sh
I’ve been using Medit 500 since spring of 2021 and really like it. The support system has been very good so far. I just called yesterday and spoke with Frank Deluca, he was very informative and helpful. - 12/07/2021
Alex Vo
Great service and scanner support! Company delivers well above my expectations! Love my medit scanner. - 1/29/2023
Maureen Copeland
Our office has been really happy with the i700 scanner so far. It was really easy to set up and use after watching only, 1-2 of the videos Cad-ray has on the website. Training with Andy was a breeze! Looking forward to taking level 2 training soon. - 1/20/2022
Have been chatting with the CADRAY group for at least a year now even though I did not buy anything from them. They are very receptive, prompt and helpful. Finally bit the bullet and received my Medit yesterday! Now my Bluecam has a new buddy!! - 7/17/2020
Benjamin Polan
A while ago I became interested in an intra oral scanner for my office especially for dental sleep medicine and TMJ appliances. I searched online for Medit and found cad ray. Laura from Cad-ray quickly responded and set up a zoom meeting so she could...read moreA while ago I became interested in an intra oral scanner for my office especially for dental sleep medicine and TMJ appliances. I searched online for Medit and found cad ray. Laura from Cad-ray quickly responded and set up a zoom meeting so she could demo the unit. Great job at helping me understand. She set up the financing and I got my unit. A few glitches with my internet speed and getting IT to help with my upload and download speeds and I was ready to go. Every time I had a question I texted Laura and almost like she was waiting for my call she responds. We it turned out my unit wasn't just right so she immediately responded we will replace you unit. Laura has been a joy to work with and the customer service given will only encourage me to do business with cad-ray again.
Benjamin Polan DMD, D,ABDSMread less - 8/27/2021
I just bought the new Medit i700. I placed the order on Friday, it shipped on Monday, and it arrived on Tuesday. So far it has been a great experience. They also provide a lot of quality videos for learning to use the scanner. - 5/05/2021
Office NHFD
Frank DeLuca was very helpful even though i didn't buy Medit from Cad ray ! Had an issue and my original dealer was not helpful and i contacted Cad ray thinking it was direct Medit. Frank was extremely nice to log in and do what ever he could until ...read moreFrank DeLuca was very helpful even though i didn't buy Medit from Cad ray ! Had an issue and my original dealer was not helpful and i contacted Cad ray thinking it was direct Medit. Frank was extremely nice to log in and do what ever he could until Medit could take over. would give 7 stars if available.read less - 8/10/2022
Brandon Erickson
I have strong feelings about how great CAD-Ray has been. I purchased a medit i500 scanner from my lap, they wanted to use it for courses which aren't happening now so he didn't want to be sitting with this expensive piece of technology sitting aroun...read moreI have strong feelings about how great CAD-Ray has been. I purchased a medit i500 scanner from my lap, they wanted to use it for courses which aren't happening now so he didn't want to be sitting with this expensive piece of technology sitting around. Before purchasing he and I both talked to the Nobel sales rep who assured me that everything would transfer over just fine. I was concerned about the learning curve and wanted to be sure that I would have tech support. I asked the rep directly and he assured me again that everything would be great and he would come do an in-depth training with me. Long story short, the sales rep had no clue what he was doing and put very little effort in to helping me once the purchase was complete. I asked him over the phone how to do a few things and his response was to call CAD-Ray. They explained that this happens, they would love to help me but asked that I purchase the service package. That was a game changer. Now all of my questions getting answered, their response time is amazing and their understanding of the machine is by far better then the Nobel reps. The scanner is great but combine that with their tech support and I feel like I'm set up for success. If I were to do this again, I would skip the headache of trying to save a little bit of money and purchase it through CAD-Ray. But even with making the mistake, I feel like they have programs and support set up to point me in the right direction.read less - 10/15/2020
Oleg Eisenstein
Great products and services. Highly recommended - 6/16/2020
Dentist here. Bought a scanner, mill and 3d printer with Cad-Ray. I don't know what I'd do if I bought these items without their support. They've helped me so much and are awesome. I felt I had to repay by writing them this nice review. You won't reg...read moreDentist here. Bought a scanner, mill and 3d printer with Cad-Ray. I don't know what I'd do if I bought these items without their support. They've helped me so much and are awesome. I felt I had to repay by writing them this nice review. You won't regret getting whatever you need through Cad Ray.read less - 3/15/2024
Laura
Very helpful and attentive when setting up my new Medit scanner. Seamless process from start to finish - 11/04/2024
Dr. Steven E. Hollister
Had a training session for use of my Medit scanner this afternoon, and Heather G. was simply the best.....knowledgeable, patient and a great trainer. She had a wealth of knowledge regarding my scanner and she was so very patient with my computer glit...read moreHad a training session for use of my Medit scanner this afternoon, and Heather G. was simply the best.....knowledgeable, patient and a great trainer. She had a wealth of knowledge regarding my scanner and she was so very patient with my computer glitches! CAD-Ray is number one in my book! Thanks Heather, your time was much appreciated! Dr. Steve Hollisterread less - 5/14/2025
Kristian Dietz
My wife and I practice together and bought our first i500 in August of 2018. This was very early on before Armen had a vast number of technique and online support articles in his blog! Little was publicly known at the time about this new scanner bu...read moreMy wife and I practice together and bought our first i500 in August of 2018. This was very early on before Armen had a vast number of technique and online support articles in his blog! Little was publicly known at the time about this new scanner but I felt confident in my purchase for a few reasons: 1) Armen had validated the product and was standing behind it... I knew of Armen from DentalTown and had many years of public posts to evaluate his character; 2) Limited demos available at the time; 3) some clinical accuracy data out of Europe that required zooming in on a powerpoint presentation that was recorded second-hand via camera phone ha! SO needless to say, I put a lot of eggs in the "Armen is standing behind this product" basket. We have NOT been disappointed. From personalized service from both Frank and Armen, to our vast success and joy using the product and deciding in late 2018 to buy a second Medit i500, I have nothing but good things to say about the product and Cad-Ray. What a bunch of self-less individuals. Armen has offered to remote in and I even took him up on the offer once and he remoted in immediately to take a look at something. Good luck getting service like this from ANYONE else in the industry. Cheers to digital dentistry with the RIGHT partner. Kristian C. Dietz, DDSread less - 3/08/2020
I purchased my Medit from Cad-Ray just prior to Covid and they have been fantastic in getting me the proper training on the machine, both through there 2 day class as well as the many video's they post on the website. I recently purchased some acce...read moreI purchased my Medit from Cad-Ray just prior to Covid and they have been fantastic in getting me the proper training on the machine, both through there 2 day class as well as the many video's they post on the website. I recently purchased some accessories for a different office and they accidently sent it somewhere else. After a quick email they had my stuff at my door within 24 hrs and they threw in a box of tips which I was not expecting (around $300). It is a pleasure to deal with them!read less - 7/19/2021
Archstone Weatherford
Medit i700 intraoral scanner is the first scanner that I actually used on my patients. Before I put my hands on it, I had some prejudices against all scanners. They were bulky, laggy in capturing the images, etc. When I finally had the chance to use ...read moreMedit i700 intraoral scanner is the first scanner that I actually used on my patients. Before I put my hands on it, I had some prejudices against all scanners. They were bulky, laggy in capturing the images, etc. When I finally had the chance to use an intraoral scanner and get introductory training with Laura from CAD-RAY a few weeks ago, I totally changed my view of this product. Very soon, I was able to scan crown, bridge, and even denture cases. Of course, I have had some knowledge about the digital scanner from CEs provided in the past, but being able to apply it in the daily practice in such a short time was beyond my expectations. I would highly recommend MEDIT i700 and training from CAD-RAY.
Big thanks to Laura!
-Lei Fu, D.D.S.read less - 9/12/2021
Been using my i700 for a month now and it's been great. The tutorials that Cad-ray provides have been very helpful. This scanner with a fast computer turns out great results. - 11/01/2021
I received my Medit scanner a couple months ago from Cad-ray, and I can't express enough how awesome it is. I have done a ton of research and used the latest IOS from one of the big guys, and due to many software issues I was able to return that mach...read moreI received my Medit scanner a couple months ago from Cad-ray, and I can't express enough how awesome it is. I have done a ton of research and used the latest IOS from one of the big guys, and due to many software issues I was able to return that machine. And thank God, because it was so over priced and came with a $300/month support fee forever! The Medit scanner is as good or better than that one when it was working properly, and for the price it's a no brainier.read less - 9/17/2020
Suresh Goel
I have enjoyed using the Medit i500 scanner. Previously I had two 3Shape scanners, however, the yearly fees were adding up and there are no ongoing fees with the Medit. Quality is great, and support has also been solid. Overall very happy with thi...read moreI have enjoyed using the Medit i500 scanner. Previously I had two 3Shape scanners, however, the yearly fees were adding up and there are no ongoing fees with the Medit. Quality is great, and support has also been solid. Overall very happy with this purchase.read less - 2/16/2020
CAD-Ray is amazing! Prompt replies, quick delivery, knowledgeable team! I had some cracks on my scanner that I read on their FB group may be a manufacturer's defect. My scanner was still covered under warranty. They overnighted a brand new one to me ...read moreCAD-Ray is amazing! Prompt replies, quick delivery, knowledgeable team! I had some cracks on my scanner that I read on their FB group may be a manufacturer's defect. My scanner was still covered under warranty. They overnighted a brand new one to me before I even knew they were going to replace it! That's how quick they are! Highly recommend them!!!read less - 12/23/2021