Customer support! I've had handfuls of scanners over the years and support has always been the biggest variable. We recently had a scanner bought through and implant company and received limited to no support. Through recommendations from several fri...read moreCustomer support! I've had handfuls of scanners over the years and support has always been the biggest variable. We recently had a scanner bought through and implant company and received limited to no support. Through recommendations from several friends, I purchased a second scanner through cad-ray and had them transfer over our support for the first. I wish I would have done this years ago. Destaney, has been incredible helping us troubleshoot a hardware issue that came up. It was on 3-shapes side but not only did she run it up the ladder there and get us back up and running quickly, but she promptly answered all questions and continuously checked in to make sure things were moving along. I won't purchase from anyone else going forward.read less - 8/14/2024
Ed Borio
I was dragging my feet before purchasing my first scanner because I was apprehensive of the effort required to change to a digital workflow. Laura assured me my fears were overblown and because of her patience and exceptional training abilities it h...read moreI was dragging my feet before purchasing my first scanner because I was apprehensive of the effort required to change to a digital workflow. Laura assured me my fears were overblown and because of her patience and exceptional training abilities it has been a rewarding and relatively seamless transition to the world of scanning. I never dreamed implementation would have been this easy and its attributed to Laura's skillful training ability. The scanner is wonderful and powerful, but we would have never been able to unlock its potential without her assistance.read less - 5/07/2021
H C
I got my 3Dshape scanner, great support , my training with Destany was excellent. Great team!! - 2/15/2024
John Pisacane
I purchased my Medit scanner after the ADA meeting in 2018. I did it primarily on the personal recommendation of Armen Mirzayan, the owner of Cad-Ray. I have known Armen for over 15 years (we both were CEREC trainers) and he has always been unbeli...read moreI purchased my Medit scanner after the ADA meeting in 2018. I did it primarily on the personal recommendation of Armen Mirzayan, the owner of Cad-Ray. I have known Armen for over 15 years (we both were CEREC trainers) and he has always been unbelievably knowledgeable about dental technology and was always moving on the cutting edge.
When you see Armen's daily FB posts, it’s obvious that he is constantly pushing the envelope and exploring the limits of the Medit and the processes we use to idealize our push towards completely digital dentistry. Medit owners are fortunate to have Armen finding glitches and pushing for improvements in our scanner.
As far as after sale service, I can’t find a flaw with Cad-Ray. You won’t find a more supportive and dentist-centered company. Armen and Frank do everything to make purchasers happy and back up their sales.
I’ve heard of horror stories when people shopped elsewhere and only positive comments about Cad-Ray.
In summary, buy your Medit and other high tech equipment from Cad-Ray, you will be totally satisfied.
.read less - 10/08/2019
Service is extremely quick and on point. Highly recommended to join the Cad Ray facebook group! - 6/01/2022
Lance Timmerman
Implant Planning Services Review I Am VERY experienced with "another system" but thought I would give CAD-Ray a try. At at LEAST 1/3 the fee, why not?
VERY happy. Fit GREAT, surgery was uneventful (the best kind) and I am a believer! This is a great company and great PEOPLE to...read moreI Am VERY experienced with "another system" but thought I would give CAD-Ray a try. At at LEAST 1/3 the fee, why not?
VERY happy. Fit GREAT, surgery was uneventful (the best kind) and I am a believer! This is a great company and great PEOPLE too! 5 stars aren't enough. Just like the Burj Al Arab, this is 7 star!read less - 3/03/2015
Shahnam Shifteh
I just ordered my i700 and am
Very excited to get into the digital world of dentistry and Nick was extremely helpful with answering any questions and helping to put the order together. - 12/09/2021
I have had excellent , prompt , customer service and support from the entire team . Especially from Frank DeLuca as I move along the learning curve. His patients and expertise is much appreciated - 1/24/2023
Jay Arnold DMD
Loving my Medit i700. My crowns have never fit better, and scanning is SOO easy. I started with cad-ray with the i500. The training and support have been second to none. I upgraded to the i700 shortly after it came out, and recently had a warranty is...read moreLoving my Medit i700. My crowns have never fit better, and scanning is SOO easy. I started with cad-ray with the i500. The training and support have been second to none. I upgraded to the i700 shortly after it came out, and recently had a warranty issue with the new scanner. immediately after calling them with my problem. A new scanner was overnighted to my office, I was very pleased, and had minimal down time.read less - 4/05/2022
P. Andrew Benson
For me, getting this scanner was not a choice between Medit vs Itero or Medit vs Trios. Those companies have already eliminated themselves from consideration based on ridiculous cost, ridiculous ongoing fees, and greater concern for petty proprieta...read moreFor me, getting this scanner was not a choice between Medit vs Itero or Medit vs Trios. Those companies have already eliminated themselves from consideration based on ridiculous cost, ridiculous ongoing fees, and greater concern for petty proprietary posturing than for ensuring full functionality of their products to their usership. Typical dental tech company stuff.
The real decision was between Medit vs continuing life in analog dentistry. Medit through Cad-ray was really the only choice. Awesome packages , awesome access to free training videos, awesome software updates, awesome access to live support, awesome support staff.
There's just nothing better in dentistry than to get a great product AND a chance to stick it to the man.read less - 6/16/2020
Instant support, nice people at Cad-Ray but LOTS of trouble getting CIT 12m same-as-cash approval as offered. CIT fumbled around for 7d in finding credit report. Eventually fed up with inactivity or support after lifting Equifax credit freeze and d...read moreInstant support, nice people at Cad-Ray but LOTS of trouble getting CIT 12m same-as-cash approval as offered. CIT fumbled around for 7d in finding credit report. Eventually fed up with inactivity or support after lifting Equifax credit freeze and directed to Experian quagmire of automated phone calling tree.read less - 1/09/2021
Alex Compton
I had been looking into scanners for a while and I could not deny the good reviews of CAD-Ray, so I gave them a call. I was pleasantly (not) surprised by the excellent service I received. Laura Geney set up a call quickly and very simply and plainly ...read moreI had been looking into scanners for a while and I could not deny the good reviews of CAD-Ray, so I gave them a call. I was pleasantly (not) surprised by the excellent service I received. Laura Geney set up a call quickly and very simply and plainly discussed with me my options. She gave me all the information I needed as well as told me about all the available specials I would be able to take advantage of! I ordered my Medit i700 and very soon after received training for myself and dental staff. We have been very happy with the service from CAD-Ray and look forward to maintaining a long lasting relationship with them. Would strongly recommend Laura and CAD-Ray!read less - 4/07/2022
Kurt Adamson
I was on the fence for a few years about getting into intra-oral scanning. I finally did it in the fall of 2019 and haven't looked back. I was hesitant mostly because I didn't want to spend a lot on $$$ on something that I don't end up implementing. ...read moreI was on the fence for a few years about getting into intra-oral scanning. I finally did it in the fall of 2019 and haven't looked back. I was hesitant mostly because I didn't want to spend a lot on $$$ on something that I don't end up implementing. I found that I love scanning, I feel like it has improved my quality of preps and my OCD of being able to verify accuracy. I recommend Cad-ray because they want you to succeed. They are always available. They have been through this process many times, they know what does and doesn't work. My experience is with the Medit i500 IOS.read less - 6/19/2020
Brent Hale
I bought a scanner from Nick Statly at Cad-ray a few months back and have nothing but good things to say about them. They were very helpful with setting up my computer that's linked to the scanner and since then have been very eager to help with ques...read moreI bought a scanner from Nick Statly at Cad-ray a few months back and have nothing but good things to say about them. They were very helpful with setting up my computer that's linked to the scanner and since then have been very eager to help with questions that I had regarding the system.read less - 12/08/2021
AMISH DESAI
Awesome! Great support. If you are planning on getting a scanner, make sure you have Cad-Ray on your side ! - 4/20/2022
Debra Haselton DDS PLC
I had a training session with Laila this morning and she was fantastic! Very organized training, easy to follow and was able to get my scanner up and running. Thank you Kaila! - 1/06/2022
Jamal
I recently made a purchase from Cad-Ray and the experience was truly outstanding. From my initial enquiry, Nick was incredibly supportive and knowledgeable, answering all of my questions thoroughly and guiding me to the product that would best meet m...read moreI recently made a purchase from Cad-Ray and the experience was truly outstanding. From my initial enquiry, Nick was incredibly supportive and knowledgeable, answering all of my questions thoroughly and guiding me to the product that would best meet my needs. What really set this experience apart was his non-pushy approach. Nick showed genuine interest in understanding my specific requirements, ensuring that I would be fully satisfied with my choice. This type of customer service is rare and it made the whole process much more enjoyable. I can confidently recommend Cad-Ray to others not just for their high-quality products, but for their exceptional customer service. A big thank you to Nick and the entire Cad-Ray team for their professionalism and dedication.read less - 5/17/2023
robert delaney
This summer I decided that it was time to purchase a scanner and train with my team. We could not be more excited as our experience with Laura at Cad-Ray has been just amazing. From the initial sales discussions to the support and training after the ...read moreThis summer I decided that it was time to purchase a scanner and train with my team. We could not be more excited as our experience with Laura at Cad-Ray has been just amazing. From the initial sales discussions to the support and training after the purchase I am very thankful to have purchased my Medit scanner from Cad-Ray. Every text and phone call has been given prompt attention and the after the sale support is first rate. It is a pleasure to leave a 5 star review for both the technology and for Laura!read less - 12/16/2021
JCarlos Mendoza
Had a good experience when purchasing my scanner, it was very easy, and to date after three months of using the scanner no support is a plus, anytime I call me I will answer and troubleshoot - 7/10/2022
Blake Ferando
I purchased my medit in April of 2019 from Cad-Ray. The support offered is second to none, and the training videos are some of the best out there. Add to that a great support team that is fast to answer questions and issues, its hard to beat Cad-Ray. - 6/19/2020
Jay Siddiqui
Amazing support and install, Jesse went through everything and made sure I was comfortable with my equipment before leaving. He also introduced me to the world of anodizing and now I am hooked! Highly recommend them for any tech you may need. - 8/23/2022
Penelope Lee
Frank and his team have always been ready and able to help us with any issue we’ve come across in the last 2 years since we purchased our mill and equipment from them. Today, Griffen went above and beyond to find a solution to our software issue. I w...read moreFrank and his team have always been ready and able to help us with any issue we’ve come across in the last 2 years since we purchased our mill and equipment from them. Today, Griffen went above and beyond to find a solution to our software issue. I was able to finish a project on time for a patient in pain because of his dedication. “We’ve never had a more helpful team for any of our equipment” was a quote from our head Doctor today. Excellent job Griffen and team!read less - 5/14/2025
Reid Stone
I cannot say enough good things about Cad-Ray and the people involved with this organization. I have purchased equipment over the past few years from them and always been amazed at the non-pushy before the sale help and the after the sale support. ...read moreI cannot say enough good things about Cad-Ray and the people involved with this organization. I have purchased equipment over the past few years from them and always been amazed at the non-pushy before the sale help and the after the sale support. I have been deciding for the last 2 years to make a big purchase of a mill and sintering furnace and Jon has never made me feel like I was bothering him and never pushed me just to try to get a sale. It really is different from other sales experiences I've had with other companies/sales people.Jesse came out and installed and provided training for our new mill and sintering furnace. He went above and beyond what I was expecting to make sure myself and my team knew how everything works during the training. He has also been great with questions we have had since the installation. I just cannot say enough good things about my experience all around and will definitely be a Cad-Ray customer for many years to come. Thank you Cad-Ray!read less - 6/15/2022
A Palmer
I'm a dentist in Maine and have been working remotely with CAD-RAY for about 5 years. They do all my implant planning and fabrication of surgical guides. I just send them a CBCT image and digital impressions and they take care of all the rest, it cou...read moreI'm a dentist in Maine and have been working remotely with CAD-RAY for about 5 years. They do all my implant planning and fabrication of surgical guides. I just send them a CBCT image and digital impressions and they take care of all the rest, it couldn't be smoother. I've only had good experiences with CAD-RAY, and am very grateful for this awesome service they offer.read less - 6/02/2019
Lora Wonderly
Thank you Frank DeLuca for being so accessible and making everything right again! Customer service is above and beyond. We also love our Medit Scanner - we would be lost without it! - 1/25/2023
Matt St George
I had 3 Cerec machines and switched to medit. It’s awesome and do not regret the switch one bit. This is the place to buy it bc Armen and Frank are a wealth of knowledge and Frank is awesome with support. He’s always there whenever I need him! - 10/10/2019
I purchased Medit scanner few weeks ago . Frank and Nick have been really excellent answering my questions promptly. The scanner itself is wonderful with no back fees , customer service is top notch. The entire team works fast and helps you out. I st...read moreI purchased Medit scanner few weeks ago . Frank and Nick have been really excellent answering my questions promptly. The scanner itself is wonderful with no back fees , customer service is top notch. The entire team works fast and helps you out. I strongly recommend this scanner!read less - 6/17/2020
will never buy any product they offer from any other company regardless of price. this team is the best and incredible. - 6/05/2022
Mark Evans
I’d like to tell you a story about CAD-Ray.com.
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little ind...read moreI’d like to tell you a story about CAD-Ray.com.
I ordered a VHF N4+ from CadRay. About two weeks after the order was placed, they called me up and said, “VHF just got an exclusive with “The Big Boys” so they are cutting ties with all the little independent distributors. They just called us, and we just found out. What this means is that we won’t be able to provide you service after purchasing the VHF mill that you just bought.”
Now, they could have just left it at that. They could have said, “Sorry, it’s out of our hands.” They could have said, “We appreciate your business, but it’s not our fault.” They could have said, “That’s the way the cookie crumbles.”
But they didn’t.
Frank Weinstein calls me up and tells me that they want to make this right, so they are going to hook me up with a brand new Imes Coritec One+ for the same price as the VHF. The Coritec One+ is like the Mercedes of mills for in-office. This is the new model that just barely came out. It is a 5 axis mill. It does wet and dry milling. It does blocks and pucks. It mills all materials know to man, including Vibranium. It can also fly the space shuttle, and make all your wishes and dreams come true. It’s that good. It came with the laptop, Exocad, all the tools, and all the bells and whistles. It came fully loaded. It came white glove delivered to my office. It came with in office training. It came with the extra bur package. It came with everything and the kitchen sink.
So, I paid 36k for a mill, and because of something that was not Cad-Rays fault, they ended up giving me a 60k mill for the same price.
In the words of the great Tony Stark: “That’s how Dad did it. That’s how Cad-Ray does it. And it’s worked out pretty well so far.”
Thank you Frank Weinstein and Armen Mirzayan for having outstanding customer service and going the extra mile every time.read less - 4/02/2021
Dr. Steven E. Hollister
Had a training session for use of my Medit scanner this afternoon, and Heather G. was simply the best.....knowledgeable, patient and a great trainer. She had a wealth of knowledge regarding my scanner and she was so very patient with my computer glit...read moreHad a training session for use of my Medit scanner this afternoon, and Heather G. was simply the best.....knowledgeable, patient and a great trainer. She had a wealth of knowledge regarding my scanner and she was so very patient with my computer glitches! CAD-Ray is number one in my book! Thanks Heather, your time was much appreciated! Dr. Steve Hollisterread less - 5/14/2025
Brenden Rogers
This company is excellent. Their knowledge, support, and sincerity is unmatched.Thank you, Frank, Damien, and Jonathan. You guys rock! - 5/08/2025
Diego Humberto Marquez Rodriguez
I am a very happy customer, the team behind cad ray, is amazing. Ive had small issues, and tech support is always available. I always call for them to help me use new apps, or updates and they stay on the phone with me all thru out, until fixing the ...read moreI am a very happy customer, the team behind cad ray, is amazing. Ive had small issues, and tech support is always available. I always call for them to help me use new apps, or updates and they stay on the phone with me all thru out, until fixing the issue. Andy has helped me several times, and he's a really nice guy too, great attitude, doesn't make me feel dumb when I don't understand. Sometimes it feels like he's part of my office team! Thank you Cad Ray, thank you Andy!read less - 2/01/2023
Minh Van
I was referred to CAD-Ray by Medit Instagram help service. I have purchased Medit i700 from Laura, I was please to work with her and the whole team. They offered the best customer service and the fast responses, especially Laura. I look forward for t...read moreI was referred to CAD-Ray by Medit Instagram help service. I have purchased Medit i700 from Laura, I was please to work with her and the whole team. They offered the best customer service and the fast responses, especially Laura. I look forward for the next purchase.read less - 12/07/2021
Harrison MacKenzie
Purchased Medit i700 from Frank/CAD-Ray and everything has been absolutely top-notch! Great service, quick responses, great training. Very happy with CAD-Ray and our i700! - 10/20/2022
Miller Loriaux
Absolutely love dealing with this company. Purchased two intraoral scanners from them over the last 3 years and the support has been beyond exceptional. Frank patiently walked me through all the basics with many a phone call (to his personal cell p...read moreAbsolutely love dealing with this company. Purchased two intraoral scanners from them over the last 3 years and the support has been beyond exceptional. Frank patiently walked me through all the basics with many a phone call (to his personal cell phone, no less) on the first go round. Whenever we've even had a hint of technical difficulty there is ALWAYS a knowledgeable voice on the other end of the line. After 3 years of use a significant issue came up with the scanner and they went above and beyond to get it back up and running. Was so impressed (and I realized how dependent we've become on a scanner) that I purchased another one.Needed some assistance submitting a Valplast RPD design digitally this week. Damien worked me through it in literally 5 minutes and took the time to optimize my graphics card performance while he was there. Top shelf service.Certainly, the first place I go with any dental tech purchase.read less - 6/04/2022
Robert Crosby
The i700 is the second scanner I have purchased. It is hands down far superior in terms of quality and ease of use than my first scanner (3M Tru Def). I was hesitant to enter the market again but wanted to mainly for implant reasons. After talking...read moreThe i700 is the second scanner I have purchased. It is hands down far superior in terms of quality and ease of use than my first scanner (3M Tru Def). I was hesitant to enter the market again but wanted to mainly for implant reasons. After talking with Laura and watching her presentation with my staff, we were sold! The i700 was extremely reasonable in price while being similar to units costing twice as much. CAD-Ray made this possible. I found their on line training to be adequate in learning the necessary skills to start scanning, I continue to watch these videos as I sharpen my skills. Initially I was concerned about the on line training. But now I actually prefer this way of training as it is self paced and you always have the library of videos to watch when needed. Laura has been there to answer questions and help me whenever needed and I’m talking on nights and weekends too! I admit I was was extremely hesitant to get another scanner, especially with an online outfit; but I have no regrets and highly recommend CAD-Ray and Laura for anyone needing a scanner! They provide excellent services.read less - 4/23/2022
Melissa Poynter
Very pleased with Heather :) She has been able to solve any and all issues I may be having, and does so within the same day if not right away! - 6/16/2022
Aaron LaRock
Dentist here. Bought a scanner, mill and 3d printer with Cad-Ray. I don't know what I'd do if I bought these items without their support. They've helped me so much and are awesome. I felt I had to repay by writing them this nice review. You won't reg...read moreDentist here. Bought a scanner, mill and 3d printer with Cad-Ray. I don't know what I'd do if I bought these items without their support. They've helped me so much and are awesome. I felt I had to repay by writing them this nice review. You won't regret getting whatever you need through Cad Ray.read less - 3/15/2024
Ellen Huang
Armen created series of these very helpful videos. They helped us tremendously in breaking into the new scanner we purchased. No matter you just got into digital dentistry or you are quite experienced with different fields of data acquiring or treatm...read moreArmen created series of these very helpful videos. They helped us tremendously in breaking into the new scanner we purchased. No matter you just got into digital dentistry or you are quite experienced with different fields of data acquiring or treatment planning, you will find those being tremendous help.read less - 5/24/2020
Nothing but great things to say about Cad-Ray! Excellent customer support from Laura after the purchase of our Medit i500 and the cart from Damien. I’ve been very impressed with the Medit in restoring crown and bridge, as well as fixed hybrids, and...read moreNothing but great things to say about Cad-Ray! Excellent customer support from Laura after the purchase of our Medit i500 and the cart from Damien. I’ve been very impressed with the Medit in restoring crown and bridge, as well as fixed hybrids, and learning more of its capabilities each day. We have intentions to buy a second Medit shortly and will definitely be using Cad-ray again.read less - 12/13/2021
Al Villalobos
Great scanner at a good price...Excellent customer service . I never want to take a conventional impression again! Best upgrade to my office in years. - 11/16/2021
Collins Woodside
I purchased my Medit i500 scanner almost a year ago from CAD-Ray. Laura and the team there have been so responsive and ready to help. It is so nice to have a person answer the phone and be willing and able to assist! - 12/09/2021
Christopher Chin
This was my intro into intraoral scanning and I did research for quite awhile. The i500 and the team at Cad Ray are top notch. The company has done such a great job putting this scanner in the ranks of the premier ones. With constant updates it gets...read moreThis was my intro into intraoral scanning and I did research for quite awhile. The i500 and the team at Cad Ray are top notch. The company has done such a great job putting this scanner in the ranks of the premier ones. With constant updates it gets better and better (though I’m still behind on updates). My crowns have never been better. They drop right in with no models. I didn’t believe it but I’m loving digital dentistry. I can’t wait to go to the class after COVID calms down!read less - 6/16/2020
We have worked with Cad-ray for over three years. There tech support should be modeled as the gold standard for tech support. Let me tell you why. When you call in someone answers the phone and even better than that they solve the problem. Lauren...read moreWe have worked with Cad-ray for over three years. There tech support should be modeled as the gold standard for tech support. Let me tell you why. When you call in someone answers the phone and even better than that they solve the problem. Lauren solved my tech problem in less than 5 minutes! Thank you Cad-ray!!read less - 1/24/2023
Brian Wilkinson
This company is genuinely amazing. Amazingly good products, but the thing that sets them apart is the support. Frank and Sean have answered any questions I have unbelievably fast. And I LOVE the DOF Craft 5x milling unit. Learning the flow of same da...read moreThis company is genuinely amazing. Amazingly good products, but the thing that sets them apart is the support. Frank and Sean have answered any questions I have unbelievably fast. And I LOVE the DOF Craft 5x milling unit. Learning the flow of same day milling was tricky for me, but they held my hand the whole way. Can’t go wrong here.read less - 1/06/2024
Gwen Giannina
CAD-Ray is an amazing company. I purchased my scanner 3 years ago. Any small issue immediately resolved by calling them for help. I originally scanned with Cerec. The ROI doesn't even compare. The Medit was by far the best technology purchase of my ...read moreCAD-Ray is an amazing company. I purchased my scanner 3 years ago. Any small issue immediately resolved by calling them for help. I originally scanned with Cerec. The ROI doesn't even compare. The Medit was by far the best technology purchase of my 20 plus years in dentistry. I will upgrade at some point and will buy again from CAD-RAY!read less - 2/04/2022
Gabriel Joel
Medit i500 is an incredible scanner. I have experience with other types of scanners including IO and Desktop but this one is really impressive. It is blazing fast and takes beautiful scans. But more importantly is the company itself. Medit is an amaz...read moreMedit i500 is an incredible scanner. I have experience with other types of scanners including IO and Desktop but this one is really impressive. It is blazing fast and takes beautiful scans. But more importantly is the company itself. Medit is an amazing company and is constantly trying to improve. They are always on the cutting edge and releasing new improvements all the time. They are always LISTENING to the customers on how to improve the scanning experience and change accordingly. The customer service is second to none. I highly recommend this scanner but even more highly recommend considering buying the scanner as a result of the great company and PEOPLE that stand behind it.read less - 10/09/2019
This scanner is amazing! It’s hard to believe that it is less then half the price of 3 shape with zero yearly charges. I highly recommend you give it a try! - 10/09/2019
Cad-Ray is the absolute best if you're in the market for digital dental tools. I have purchased two Medit scanners through them. There will be hiccups with any complex piece of machinery, but every time I have needed Cad-Ray, they have been there. I ...read moreCad-Ray is the absolute best if you're in the market for digital dental tools. I have purchased two Medit scanners through them. There will be hiccups with any complex piece of machinery, but every time I have needed Cad-Ray, they have been there. I recently had a scanner go down. I called Cad-Ray tech support and they got me on the phone with Medit immediately. Within a day, a replacement scanner was sitting on my desk. It doesn't get much better than that.read less - 10/18/2024
K. Banani
Amazing customer service. I haven’t ever worked with a company where there is an issue, you can immediately get help and assistance and so far have not had an issue that CADRAY wasn’t able to fix. They made the process buy buying and maintaining a sc...read moreAmazing customer service. I haven’t ever worked with a company where there is an issue, you can immediately get help and assistance and so far have not had an issue that CADRAY wasn’t able to fix. They made the process buy buying and maintaining a scanner seamless. Highly recommend!read less - 2/23/2024